CIRCULAR REFERENCE ICT

Circular Reference: So I know that a big source of inspiration for the lyrics and the project in general comes from your wife, but stylistically it's very harsh. What were you going for? Any bands in particular?

Skyler Marshall: Poison the Well and The Bled- those two bands stood out to me because the lyrical content wasn't mean- it was sad- sad about relationships in particular. They were vulnerable. They were emotional. They were personal. Frankly, they were embarrassing. Like on Opposite of December. You know that one?

CR: I'm a huge Poison the Well fan, so I'm definitely familiar.

SM: It's so vulnerable, that it could come across as embarrassing. The humility behind that drives me. It's part of the reason I do Match Made in Heaven. In my older age I've learned to love humility and grow from it. My love of emotional lyrics that are not like *mockingly* 'I'm going to punch you in the face!' or 'I hate war!' or 'I am so macho and aggressive all the fucking time!'- that was a big driving force for me starting Match Made in Heaven.

My wife hates metal. My wife hates screaming. She hates abrasive music. And so, being a smart ass prick like I am, 'I am going to do a tribute to her!'

I remember the first time showing her Match Made in Heaven she was like 'What the fuck is this shit?'

CR: *laughs*

SM: Yeah, I told her 'Dude, this is me, and these songs are about you.' I made her read the lyrics. She couldn't believe it.

As I keep cranking (records) out, I've made her read the lyrics. On this last one she was like 'I can't believe you do this, that you make music like this.' and my reaction was like 'I did this while you and the kids were in bed.' It was a shock for her. We had a good hug. That drives me- that feeling, releasing the emotion that I don't otherwise. I'm a very emotional person, and I usually give it away, but the shit I don't give away stacks up.

CR: That's incredible. With the time we have I feel like we owe a certain fidelity to each other, you know what I mean? Because life is finite... just like this record! Eight songs, six minutes!

SM: *laughs*

We all see each other differently. We all appreciate each other differently. We can say words to people all you want, but deep in yourself, you know how you feel about someone else. And only they know how they feel about you. Match Made in Heaven is an ironic thing. The whole thing is about my wife. They are about how I love her. It's a very personal thing.

CR: I think people who may have met you more recently think of you as the heavy tenor guitar guy, but when I met you, you were playing drums in Feral Moan. I knew you could play guitar, but those first few records feel much more drum centric. Compared to a lot of stuff that's driven by drum machines or that is programmed, there are very few moments in those early records where you're playing a measure that's the same, back to back, or where you're settling into a groove. That grindcore influence is something I definitely picked up on

SM: I don't think I have ADHD, or ADD, or anything like that, but I really like short songs where there's a ton of shit crammed in there. I can play the drums quickly and aggressively, but I just decided that I wanted a robot drummer. The first record I did not give a shit about the guitar. The first record is a bass, I think. I wanted to make something heinous. I wanted to make the mix heinous and scooped and sucked the tone to static distant nothingness. I didn't even write riffs. I just wanted to make the drums hit really, hard, and do fucked up vocals on it.

CR: I think that's one of the reasons I love it so much. It's so atypical. There's always this strong sense of rhythm and dynamics- the focus on the transient. It's certainly brutal, but there's a certain musicality to it. It's drums and your vocals right out in front on that first record, and nobody does it that way. Most heavy music is so guitar centric- quad tracked guitars, etc.

SM: Converge - Jane Doe - There's a track on there called 'Phoenix in Flames'. Go play that track.

CR: *plays track while doing the interview* Okay, yeah, I get it. This is a strong influence.

SM: The first time I heard that track, I listened to it over and over again. I was in a band called Skirt Chaser. It was just me on drums and a vocalist at first. We added a guitar player. Eventually that project fizzled out. Match Made in Heaven is revisiting some of those musical themes.

CR: So This Undead Emotion comes out April 2020, then a little less than a year later, you put out At the Mercy of Time. On that record, there's much more slow grooving and grinding. I love those transition tracks. It's very moody and atmospheric. Did you know you were going to have a second act with this project?

SM: I didn't at first. The more I listened to that record and thought about the concept, the lyrics, my wife, I decided that it is important that I should. As long as it's in me, I should keep going.

I think deep down all of us want people to know who we are and what we like to do and what we're capable of. It's cathartic to remove all sorts of emotions and creativity out of me.

The biggest influence (on the slower parts) is probably Pig Destroyer. How on their older stuff, how much it shreds and rips and tears and batters you, and then, bam, it starts grooving.

CR: There is something really primal about a good groove, isn't there?

SM: Absolutely. On this new record, Bury It, there's maybe 15 seconds of slow stuff. Lately I've been heavily influenced by Gridlink. Their newest record is weird and I feel like my new record is my attempt at a style that they've created, their weird extreme grindcore, almost screamo melancholy in the chords. I don't want it to chug though. I'm playing a Stratocaster for this one.

CR: Okay, that's interesting. On Bury It, there are much more strong and forward guitars. I thought it was the tenor, but it doesn't get much more standard than a strat.

SM: All the records I make the drums first. I make the drums with absolutely nothing else in mind. I get them to where I can work over the top of them. When I got to recording (the other instruments on Bury It) I decided on this great Japanese Strat that a customer gave me. It plays super fucking sick, set up in standard E with 9's. I put it in drop C for this record, so it plays like garbage. The strings are like noodles.

CR: Oh my god *laughs* I've done that before. Noodles is the right descriptor.

SM: The early records are three or four distortions or fuzzes stacked together. On this one, I only used one “lawyer” distortion. It's a Fulltone pedal. I just dialed in this tone with the strat that, frankly, when I tracked it, I didn't think it sounded that great. When I started mixing it, the textures kind of fell together. The drums kind of became secondary to the guitar tone. I second guessed it. I recorded the vocals, mixed this, and said to myself 'Fuck it, I love this.'

I've been sitting on this record for three months, wondering 'Is this what I want to do? Is this good enough?' blah, blah, blah. When I finally decided to release it, it felt so good. I listened to it on my stereo one last time. I really liked how it sounded. Why was I waiting?

I feel so self conscious in my older age. I fucking hate that.

CR: I'm not too much younger than you. I just turned 38 last month.

SM: Happy belated birthday!

CR: Thank you! *laughs* It's funny. When you're young, being in a band is cool. But the older you get the more society views being in a band as a liability. There's that adage 'There's no bigger fool than an old fool.' The stakes feel higher with everything you put out as you get older. That's my perception anyways.

SM: I've never thought about it that way, but I can't disagree, honestly.

CR: There is this sense of 'I'm in my own lane. I'm doing exactly what I want to do. 100%. I don't care. No compromises' that sort of powers through all that. I think it's another reason I'm drawn to this music.

SM: Exactly. I've been in other people's bands, and I've quit those bands. All I want to do is what I want to do. There are those rare times where people who pass through my life, who are still in my life, that I still collaborate with. Phil Ross, Jackson Graham, Darrin Stevens. There are very few people that I hit it really hard with, we don't argue, and we create. It's so much easier to do it with one other person for me. I do better in one-on-one conversations than in a crowd.

But there is this desire to be self sufficient- proving it to myself 'I could do that, if I wanted to'.